if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
DeeGee » If demons are real then why is it that when persons are cured of their psychotic symptoms they don't continue to see demons and/or have encounters with them? Why did the demons disappear?
Because they're psychotic. If demons, evil spirits, ghosts don't exist, why do people who aren't psychotic continue to see them? Why do entire families see and hear them?
found this little gem when going through the daily texts.... so let me get this straight.... god knows your suffering really badly and wants to help.
he knows you feel like you're at your limit, but he also knows that you are not really - that you can handle some more suffering.
so instead of helping, he "patiently" waits till you are at your absolute limit, and only then does he help!?.
It goes to what the purpose of life is.
Why are we here? Where did we come from? Religion attempts to answer this regardless of what it is. The religion that terrifies me more than any other is reincarnation. Once is enough for me to go around this merry-go-round. I knew a guy who thinks he's the reincarnation of Thomas Andrews, the designer of the Titanic. He grew up asking about aunts and uncles he never had, drawing pictures of a great ship with little boats in the water. As an adult he went to a hypnotherapist who specialized in past life regressions. He remembers thinking, "This is never going to work," and then he went under. He began speaking in a Scotch-Irish brogue and he later marketed the tapes. It was like listening to someone telling the story of his life. The family of Mr. Andrews, who perished on board the ship he designed, is not happy about this fellow. I've listened to his tapes a dozen times just for entertainment and wondered how he could have such experiences. But in one story, Andrews reports a verbal exchange with two other men, then leaves. Then he continues the story with what the men said after he left. How could someone "remember" a conversation he was not present to hear? Still, he spoke of his first car, the woman he married; he complained she was more interested in his car than in him (their first date was a ride in the car). He talked about being a kid, keeping bees, playing soccer; of being a mid-line manager, learning about steels. He talked about his dad, a constable and a religious man who had no toleration for alcohol. I wondered, where do people come up with that stuff.
When I talked to him, he told me he had memories, some vague, some more vivid. For example, he says he remembers vividly standing of scaffolds overlooking the twin ships Titanic and Olympic. I have no theories as to how these memories got into his head. He said he was punished as a child. Once, in school, he said he was caught staring out into a lake choked with ice near his school. He said the teacher dragged him from the room while he told her and the students to "stop millin' about and get into the little boats!"
Very strange. Don't know if the tapes or CDs are still available, but they used to be available from Amazon.
do the scripture writers at hq allow for any scriptural exegesis that recognizes the state of israel as fulfillment of ancient prophecy?
isaiah, for example, writes: .
and it shall come to pass in that day, that the lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from assyria, and from egypt, and from pathros, and from cush, and from elam, and from shinar, and from hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Many times prophecy requires an acute knowledge of history. Theologians have already addressed those prophecies, showing that the fulfillments were literal and applicable to history. One notes concerning the 390 days/years:
Notice the 390 days represent 390 years. God himself says this clearly in Ezekiel 4:6. Careful study of the years following Jeroboam's rebellion indicate just 390 years until the last king of Judah is dethroned. At the same time as the kings of Judah are permanently "defrocked," the temple and city of Jerusalem is destroyed. This was accomplished in the 18th year of captivity under the reign of Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon who besieged Jerusalem for 18 months before it succumbed. At this point, the first part of Ezekiel's prophecy is fulfilled.
Some will ask what Judah's kings have to do with the sin of Israel. First, Judah (which included the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin), represented the kingdom of Israel which God had set up. Judah maintained those kings of David's lineage, with the authority of the throne that had been established by God Himself. Judah also encompassed Jerusalem, the city God had chosen to place His name there-meaning the temple. All of Israel, not just Judah, should have worshiped God in that temple. Second, the kings of the ten tribes of Israel, referred to simply as "Israel" in this prophecy, had rebelled against Judah, against the temple, and thus against God. All of those kings, God says, were evil. Although the kings' power was forcibly removed well before the 390 years had been completed, the people of the ten tribes still followed in the Godless practices to which those kings had led them in the centuries prior. They never returned to the temple services as a people throughout the 390 years of their probation.
Judah and Benjamin, which should have done more to bring their brethren back to worship in the temple, had instead also succumbed to pagan practices and some of Judah's kings had led Judah away from God as well. As a result, Judah would suffer the same fate as did Israel. (Understanding Ezekiel's Prophecies)
So much of Israel's worship centered in temple worship. Methodist scholar Margaret Barker is a recognized as an authority on temple, and I'd recommend her books and YouTube videos.
Regarding the city of Tyre, another commentator writes:
After a closer look at the text, however, such an interpretation is misguided. Ezekiel began his prophecy by stating that “many nations” would come against Tyre (26:3). Then he proceeded to name Nebuchadnezzar, and stated that “he” would build a siege mound, “he” would slay with the sword, and “he” would do numerous other things (26:7-11). However, in 26:12, the pronoun shifts from the singular “he” to the plural “they.” It is in verse 12 and following that Ezekiel predicts that “they” will lay the stones and building material of Tyre in the “midst of the waters.” The shift in pronouns is of vast significance, since it shifts the subject of the action from Nebuchadnezzar (he) back to the many nations (they). Till and others fail to see this shift and mistakenly apply the utter destruction of Tyre to the efforts of Nebuchadnezzar.
Furthermore, Ezekiel was well aware of Nebuchadnezzar’s failure to destroy the city. Sixteen years after his initial prediction, in the 27th year of Johoiachin’s captivity (circa 570 B.C.), he wrote: “Son of man, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon caused his army to labor strenuously against Tyre; every head was made bald, and every shoulder rubbed raw; yet neither he nor his army received wages from Tyre, for the labor which they expended on it” (29:18). Therefore, in regard to the prophecy of Tyre as it relates to Nebuchadnezzar’s activity, at least two of the elements were fulfilled (i.e., the siege mound and the slaying of the inhabitants in the field).
Regarding the prediction that “many nations” would come against Tyre, the historical records surrounding the illustrious city report such turmoil and war that Ezekiel’s prophecy looks like a mild understatement of the facts. After Nebuchadnezzar’s attack of the city “a period of great depression” plagued the city which was assimilated into the Persian Empire around 538 B.C. (Fleming, p. 47). In 392 B.C., “Tyre was involved in the war which arose between the Persians and Evagorus of Cyprus” in which the king of Egypt “took Tyre by assault” (p. 52). Sixty years later, in 332, Alexander the Great besieged Tyre and crushed it (see below for further elaboration). Soon after this defeat, Ptolemy of Egypt conquered and subjugated Tyre until about 315 B.C. when Atigonus of Syria besieged Tyre for 15 months and captured it (Fleming, p. 65). In fact, Tyre was contested by so many foreign forces that Fleming wrote: “It seemed ever the fate of the Phoenician cities to be between an upper and a nether millstone” (p. 66). Babylon, Syria, Egypt, Rome, Greece, Armenia, and Persia are but a sampling of the “many nations” that had a part in the ultimate destruction of Tyre. Thus, Ezekiel’s prophecy about “many nations” remains as a historical reality that cannot be successfully gainsaid. (Ezekiel's Prophecy On Tyre)
from facebook:just saw my jw mother after not seeing her for more than 2 years.
when i do see her, it is brief, she never asks about my life, doesn't ask about my 4 children her grandchildren, doesn't ask about my grandchildren...her great grandchildren, she doesn't ask about my other 2 brothers that she is also alienated from, she doesn't ask about my brothers family.
she doesn't talk about the jw/org either.
DaysOfFuturePassed » It could be just your mom's particular hall that is ramping it up. In the hall I grew up in, they were very attentive to any change or announcement from the Wt.
It's odd. For a church that doesn't believe in revelation or in the gifts of the Spirit, that's a completely irregular way of looking at it. The GB doesn't claim to talk to angels or even God, so how would they hear from God to pass on instructions. Either the people think the GB is plugged in or the GB has found it useful to let them think they're plugged in. One wonders how God would communicate with them. Dreams?
Still, after 1974, I can't believe they'd do it again.
from facebook:just saw my jw mother after not seeing her for more than 2 years.
when i do see her, it is brief, she never asks about my life, doesn't ask about my 4 children her grandchildren, doesn't ask about my grandchildren...her great grandchildren, she doesn't ask about my other 2 brothers that she is also alienated from, she doesn't ask about my brothers family.
she doesn't talk about the jw/org either.
BerryGerry » ...she seemed to feel the need to tell me that JANUARY 1st EVERTHING will change. She said the Preaching Work will END. I asked "So you won't be going door-to-door anymore?" She said they WILL STILL GO door-to-door but not to Preach or Teach, they will be giving the WARNING!! Armageddon is almost upon us! She also point to her doorway and said "You see that? They (the society) told us to have 3 DAYS of Food and Water ready TO GO!!" I asked, "Then what?" She says, "We will get a call, take our food and water, go to the Kingdom Hall and they will give us directions from there."
Sounds like you've been served.
Wonder where she got the inside information? It appears that the Governing Body is going to get instructions they will convey to the members. I'm so terribly excited by this news. We are really close this time.
I can feel it.
If we were close in 1974, we must be very, very close now.
She must feel that either way she's done with preaching.
Magnum » So, what's the deal with Jan 1st? Why would they think it's special?
That's the interesting part. She got the idea somewhere. I can't believe the Dark Lords would be foolish enough to put out another date. Certainly they've learned from the past...haven't they?
if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
Just because people with psychotic issues report issues with demons proves nothing. Many people without psychotic personalities also claim to have had issues. It's like people who have had near death experiences and people who see UFOs. Certainly there are some fruitcakes out there, but there also are good, decent, honorable people who say they've had experiences with the paranormal. (Even psychotics have normal experiences, so just because some psychotics say they saw something they can't explain doesn't cover all the others.) People all over Phoenix, Arizona, saw UFOs (some as large as football fields) on March 13, 1997. How does one explain that?
Atheists have to discount the paranormal world of ghosts, spirits because of the implications. They thus keep their minds closed to the possibility that there's life after death, or beings of evil. I think atheists can be agnostics when it comes to the paranormal. The existence of life after death can be argued that there's a God, but it doesn't necessarily mean there is a God. Perhaps there's life after death but no God. Or perhaps we exist for a while, then cease to exist. But if God exists, and He doesn't write His name across the heavens to prove He exists, there's a chance that evil spirits aren't under the same restrictions. From what little is surmised from the existence of spirits, they don't seem to be anywhere near all powerful; they also apparently are not permitted or able to take human life unless people give their lives totally over to them.
Whatever the explanation, I think people are seeing and hearing something they can't explain. I don't believe all the videos and photographs are faked. People have had stories of hauntings in all cultures and times going back to ancient Greece and before. And the invention of cameras and film haven't seemed to have had any effect on the numbers of claimed hauntings. It leads me to wonder that if an atheist were to experience a haunting first hand, would it necessarily convert them to believing in a God?
if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
If someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
I know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns? Do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders? Or is there someone else who handles these matters? And when they attempt to cast out demons, do they use the name of Jehovah or Jesus? Or both?
Does anyone have any first- or second-hand stories they can relate? Some time ago we discussed objects people had acquired from worldly people at garage or lawn sales that were thought to be possessed. In those cases the items were merely disposed of by throwing them away or giving them to another worldly person. I don't think any attempts were made to actually cast the demons out of, say, a Pink Floyd audio CD. (My grandma used to have hand fans from funeral parlors in the house, and our JW family members weren't happy to have them lying around! I don't know why...they worked just fine!)
the article says that the dead chickens are given to the poor but i was told that the chickens are thrown into the garbage.
(who could possibly eat a chicken full of sin?).
https://www.google.com/amp/abc7ny.com/amp/religion/exclusive-dead-chickens-in-cages-as-part-of-jewish-ritual/2457387/.
Not me. Sinful Angus cows, medium rare? Yeah, but not chickens.
I don't want any problems with this guy:
do the scripture writers at hq allow for any scriptural exegesis that recognizes the state of israel as fulfillment of ancient prophecy?
isaiah, for example, writes: .
and it shall come to pass in that day, that the lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from assyria, and from egypt, and from pathros, and from cush, and from elam, and from shinar, and from hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
Waton » Cold Steel, why would the ancient books be proven to be true by 'prophecy' that can be understood in so many ways, when the same scrolls, volumes, are full of scientific inaccuracies from the outset?
I've never argued that the scriptures were free from error. There are actually quite a few errors in transmission. But when the scriptures say that the Jews were going to be scattered, then gathered, that they would reject their Messiah (Isaiah 53) or that they would see the wounds in his hands (Zechariah 12), and that when these things were fulfilled, I believe they will stand as testimonies to both the heathen and the Jews that these things occurred.
Then to see the miraculous victories handed to the nation of Israel when everyone expected them to perish against overwhelming odds. I can remember the six-day war in 1967 and how everyone except the fundamentalist Christians believed Israel faced total defeat. My dad believed the prophecies, but even he, being a Navy aviator and military man, had doubts that Israel would survive. My mother had more faith that they would.
If prophecy is correct, you may yet live to see the Turkish Caliphate revived. Fifteen years ago, I sat with my wife's aunt in her kitchen with her Turkish friends. She told me that the military in Turkey was strong and it would never, ever, allow a religious government to get in. I said nothing, but afterwards told my wife that biblical prophecy was against what they'd told me. Now we're seeing what Recep Tayyip Erdoğan has done in office. If it continues to follow prophecy, the Turks will one day unite Islam in a jihad against Israel. Then Ezekiel 38-39 and Zechariah 12, 14 will be fulfilled.
If not, I'll be wrong.
if someone believes they're being plagued with demons or they have problems with hauntings, things moving by themselves or hearing voices or footsteps, who they gonna call?
i know they take demons very seriously, so who in the congregation do they go to when they need to bring out the big guns?
do they try to handle it themselves or is this a job for the elders?
Hmmm...I had a good friend in college who said he lived in a troubled house...419 "L" Street, Atchison, Kansas. He said he had a small study in his home where a middle-aged man was frequently seen in a chair. His family used to rent a room to foreign exchange students and one, from France, came to dinner one night. He was seen counting off the number of settings at the table and asked if the man in the study would be joining them. When he was told about the man, the fellow turned about and promptly returned to the study convinced he'd seen a man sitting there.
No one was there. The family had problems with footsteps at night, lights appearing on walls that appeared at first to be car headlights, but when they'd hold their hands up in front of it, there were no shadows. One night, his family came home and found my friend's brother, Matthew, with their father's gun. He thought Mark was upstairs because he heard the footsteps overhead...louder than he'd heard before. He called for Mark but no one answered. Moments later, he heard someone running above him, then heard a door shut. Moments later there was the sound of what sounded like a chest being pushed over. It was so loud he went upstairs expecting to see his brother, but no one was there. He checked his father's room and there was no one. So he found his father's pistol and rushed back downstairs. Nothing more happened until his parents returned. A few minutes later, Mark came home from work. The whole family searched the house, but there not only was no one there, they could find nothing to explain the noise of a chest being toppled.
Mark had a number of stories and his family backed him up. His mother said she was taking laundry downstairs and she tripped over something on the stairs. Someone caught her and she, thinking it was her husband who had come up behind her, turned and found no one there. She asked the rest of the family why an evil spirit would keep her from falling instead of letting her break her neck, so she said she didn't want help from the family's minister. The only bad experience happened when the French foreign exchange student brought in a Ouiji Board in to contact the "spirit" he saw in the study. Mark sat as the recorder and, when they attempted to speak to the spirit, even though he was sitting with all four legs of his chair down, he felt as though he were falling backwards. Matthew, the student, and two friends of the student, swore he'd gotten up and began swearing at them with every foul word he could utter. He began shoving one of them and was knocked down. He was getting up when he was knocked back down. It was at that time, he said, that he regained his faculties. He swears he had no memory of attacking them or being knocked down, though he said his face hurt where he'd been punched.
I knew another fellow, who's still a good friend (Mark's now dead). He had problems with something standing at the foot of his bed and staring at him. He'd wake up feeling as though someone was watching him. He said it was a tall man, just a silhouette, with a top hat, cane and eyes. He was one of my roommates in school. I've since learned this is a fairly common occurrence and many people have reported seeing exactly the same thing. Only there was no Internet back then, so I had no knowledge of it. I thought it was just him. I know this guy as well as I do my own brother, and there's no way he'd lie about this. (Do a search for "hat man shadow people.") He said the man appeared in different parts of the room, sometimes with the hat on and sometimes carrying the hat with the cane in the same hand. It was always accompanied by an intense cold and a feeling of evil. He finally stopped sleeping in the dark and kept a light on.
I concur that if these types of spirits can exist, then it must mean that God exists, else how can they be?
